Our Curley Ancient Origins - YDNA/Male Founder and Descendants

Our Curley YDNA SNP Ancestry Since L21 (L21 estimated to have occurred  2550 BC) - L21 is mainly associated with the Bell Beaker movement and later Celtic population groups however L21 is found heavily in Scandinavia in addition to what were considered heavy Celtic areas. Years back it was initially thought to be a Celtic marker but testing has shown it's much more widespread than that.
 L21>S552>DF13>ZZ10_1>Z253>Z2534>ZZ5_1>Z2185>BY44331>Z2186>Z2183>L1066 (estimated 1900 BC) >A6127>A6119 (estimated 350 AD/CE)

I am really pleased with the advances Family Tree DNA (FTDNA) has made with their paternal YDNA testing and incorporating that into a page that compares your results to ancient remains that have been DNA tested. Previously, I would have to scour the internet to see if any new remains were found that match our lineage but now I just periodically log into the FTDNA website and go to the section for Ancient Connections and see if anything new has been added. This puts my mind at ease that a match may be found one day and I won't know about it. I think ancient remains are going to be the key to determining our origin between early AD through 1200 AD or thereabouts. As explained below, currently 4 sets of ancient remains have been found to match our lineage through the shared YDNA SNP L1066, also called CTS1202. This mutation we have occurred approximately 1900 BC so while it's nice to see we have ancestors that lived in ancient Scotland, Ireland and Sweden, it's too far back in time to really help with what we're looking for. I do see a possible pattern developing however, there may be a connection between the ancient tribal group that existed where our remains were found in Scotland and with an ancient Irish tribal group that existed where are Curleys have lived in Ireland for many hundreds of years, that being tribes within the Belgae. I'm waiting for a discovery such as ancient remains found in Central Ireland possible dated between 300 - 800 AD, that would be a big discovery and quite newsworthy.

Our Ancient Ancestors - As of 11/13/2022 There are 5 sets of ancient remains tested and confirmed for YDNA SNP L1066:
In this area we will list the ancient remains that have been found and tested positive for the YDNA SNP L1066 or below (more recent). These are verified ancestors. I'm only listing L1066 or more recent because as listed above, L1066 dates back to approximately 1900 BC. I would actually like to get to the SNP A6119 or more recent but to date there have been no ancestors found with a shared ancestor going back to this period. I am very hopeful at some point we will have a match to an ancestor with A6119 or more recent. As of the end of 2024 we still do not have a set of ancient remains that matches an SNP more recent than L1066. The next identified SNP for our lineage is A6127, currently estimated to have occurred approximately 1800 BC. Currently there is one tested male who has the SNP A6127 but matches no other more recent SNPs, meaning his branch split away from ours approximately 1850 BC. This male does not list a country of origin so its unknown if his ancestry is also from the British Isles or somewhere else.

No solid conclusions can be drawn from the finding of these ancestors and their locations other than L1066 was in the British Isles very early on, specifically Scotland, probably arriving with the Bell Beaker population. It's possible at least some of our ancestors participated in Viking activities, for example, it's possible there was a Viking branch or branches in addtion to non-Viking branches found in Britain. It's assumed there was quite a bit of travel back and forth between mainland Scotland and areas of Denmark (Longniddry to Denmark is a straight line west to east and not very far to travel).

Proposals-
We know from both oral history and YDNA testing our specific L1066>A6119+ lineage has been in Ireland since at least 1275 AD/CE. It's possible the lineage has been there since 400 AD/CE or earlier but we can't say for certain at this time. The three most likely scenarios are that our original male Curley founder arrived in Ireland as part of the Norman invasion of Ireland however, there is no historical record of this. It is recorded that a man named William Macarell did arrive in Ireland with the invasion and the earliest recorded spelling for the Curley surname appears to be a close match to this name, the spellings of McKerryle and McKyrrell are recorded very early in Ireland but I'm not at all convinced this man is the founder. We also know several non-paternally related lineages have adopted the Curley surname at various points and there are some ridiculous proposals out there for the origin of the Curley surname which I won't even waste time explaining why they are debunked and should be completely discounted. There is no current explanation proferred for the origina of our Curley surname as it relates to our specific lineage. We did not acquire it from another Curley lineage through acquaitance or other means, we are the original Curley lineage and DNA testing has demonstrated that by having a direct unbroken line going back to possibly at least 1300 AD.

Another proposition for our origin would be a Viking invader of Ireland. Somewhat recent DNA testing has shown our more ancient L1066 YDNA SNP has been found in Vikings which means at least some branches under L1066 may have been Vikings. However, the L1066 SNP is currently dated to approximately 1900 BC so our split from these Viking lineages happened a very long time ago, long before the convept of a Viking even existed. The Curley homeland in Athlone is in the same area where a Viking Chieftain named Turgesius had a major encampment for serveral years, on the shores of Lough Ree so there was major Viking activity in this area. The estimated date range for the founding of our A6119 YDNA SNP also falls within the time of the arrival of the Vikings in Ireland. For now, this proposal is just that, but one factor that could change any speculation would be ancient remains found and testing positive for our A6119 SNP or a more recent YDNA SNP we have in our lineage. I am optimistic this will happen, the rate they are testing ancient remains has brought hope to figuring out this puzzle.

The final proposal is that our Curley lineage has been in Ireland well before the Viking age, as part of an ancient tribal group that at some point was nearly wiped out since there are very few branches for our lineage. Our lineage is shared by many males having an Irish surname other than Curley, some appearing to be lineages that have had their surname for centuries but they are not the historical branch of that family name, not the main one as written in historical documentation. In fact, we have about a dozen or so Irish surnames identified thus far that share our paternal lineage and the genetic distance between all of us points to a shared ancestor who existed somewhere between 300 and 900 AD/CE. The part that troubles me with this proposal for our origin is that there are so few overall matches to our lineage that have DNA tested, if we have been in Ireland since a period between 300 and 900 AD (or perhaps even earlier), I would expect to see more matches found. I keep in mind it is possible there are points in history where our lineage may have been all but wiped out, and that could explain it. There were plagues that decimated population groups and if our lineage had been mainly confined to small geograhic area it could have suffered terrible losses. There was also brutal warfare where entire tribal groups were wiped out. In later years, there was the famine that had a devastating impact on the population. The fact is, we exist today so we were not wiped out, we represent one very long and thin branch on a tree and it's reasonable to suggest warfare, plagues and famines could explain why there are not more of us today. If future DNA testing produces concrete evidence of a presence in Ireland prior to the Viking arrival, I will go into more detail with the information I have found other the past years, as it relates to ancient Irish groups and which group is the most likely. I believe we could confine our research to the area of ancient Connacht, in the territory of Ui Mhaine. It's important to keep in mind our ancient L1066 ancestors found in the Lothians of Scotland, where in this general area were the Damnonii. In Ireland, in the area of our Curley family has been for centuries, were the Fir Domnann, some have speculated a connection between the Irish Fir Domnann and the Damnonii found in Britain. I think we should keep this in mind since our ancient remains ancestors discovered in Scotland were literally found right next to the territory of the Damnonii. The territory the remains were found was later identified as the territory of the Votadini or Otadini. Here is some information on the Damnonii . I seriously doubt these close distinct tribal groups were composed of singular male YDNA lineages (all paternally related), that wouldn't be a rational or logical assumption. Certainly these large tribal groups contained different male YDNA among the members, in fact, ancient remains that have been found and tested from the same area and from the same period of time are showing multiple YDNA haplogroups present, meaning these groups were well mixed with males from different paternal lineages. No larger tribal group is going to be solely one specific YDNA haplotype, it will e a mixture of several different YDNA haplotypes.

This is what I see today as the most likely candidates for our origin and we'll continue to montior new testing results. Family Tree DNA has made tremendous progress with the tool they have available now, they have a section now specifically for ancient remains and advanced YDNA testing. Prior to this I had to search the interest to try and find any new ancient remains results but now, FTDNA has a direct pipeline into receiving these results, all I have to do is periodically check their website to see if any new matches have come in. I think this is where we will be alerted to the information that will solve our mystery and as I stated, I am quite optimitic this will happen in the near future.

If you are interested in a very entertaing read, the story of the battle between the Fir Bolg and Tuatha De Dannan . While there certainly is a great deal of mythology written about the Fir Bolg, I believe they are an actual ancient people of Ireland and represent one of the Belgic/Belgae tribal groups that migrated to Ireland and parts of Britain. Included in the this group would be the Damnonni and Dumnoni, actual tribal groups. Further DNA testing will continue to reveal the secrets of our past. Belgae tribes were found in ancient Gaul as well as Britain and Ireland.

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