Clan Curley FAQs

Frequently Asked Questions

Question: Have we learned anything more about the possible origins for Clan Curley?

Answer: At present, we still do not know the origin for the main L1066 Curley family, prior to approxmiately 1400 to 1500 AD. Previously it was
reported that ancient remains were found in Longniddry Scotland (dated to approxmiately 1400 BCE), sharing a YDNA mutation with the Curleys,
however that only demonstrates that our ancestors were actively moving back and forth between Britain and the European Continent during that time
period. Interestingly, if you draw a straight line to the east, in about 429 miles you hit the coast of Denmark.

With this said, I believe if we narrow it down to the 3 most likely scenarios for the Curley origin, it would be one of the ones listed below. We are not
able to determine at this time which of these possible points of origin are most likely, each one has circumstantial evidence that supports a possible origin
for the group.

1. Ancient Irish Origin -
     The main reason I believe it is possible is due to the large number or Irish surnames found within the group. Some of these surnames also appear to
     have a large genetic distance between the matches,meaning they are separated by over 1000 years to a common male ancestor. If this is the
     correct origin for the lineage, it would most likely be one of the more ancient groups such as the Sencheneoil, Sogain or a Cruithin tribe with an origin
     in or around the ancient territory of the Ui Maine. Interestingly though, our DNA type is not found to be very widespread and only in a relatively
     small numbers. This makes me a little less certain of a more ancient origin in Ireland, I would expect to see it more widespread and in greater numbers.

2. Norman Origin -
     It's also possible the Curleys arrived in Ireland as part of the Strongbow Invasion of Ireland. The more distant shared DNA matches to our group,
     going back a few thousand years do include a large number of surnames that are of Norman origin. What is not known is if these Norman surnames
     are reflective of the original Norman invaders/settlers or if the surnames were acquired through the process of native Irish adopting the surnames by
     other means. Many of the Normans were of course of Viking origin, having acquired land in France which later became Normandy or Land of the
     North Men however, the Norman invaders were by no means a pure or singular YDNA Hapolgroup, the invasion force was a mixed force of several
     unrelated groups, inclduing ancient Britons that had previously fled to Brittany in France. I find this less probable than the ancient Irish origin.

3. Viking Origin - (Update- this possible origin just gained a bit more traction due to Viking remains found positive for the SNP L1066)
    This is based upon the main location for Clan Curley, primarily Athlone Ireland and Lough Ree. Lough Ree was actually the site for a major Viking
     encampment for many years, under the Viking Chief Turgesius. Also, the shared common ancestor for the Curley matches including other surnames
     appears to be from a period of time between 800 and 1100 AD, the period the Vikings were most active in Ireland. In addition, the L1066 snp has
     been found in Scandinavia however that isn't noteworthy in itself since the L1066 mutation is over 3800 years old. There are a few other pieces of
     information that lead me to believe this should be included in the list of possible origins however there is nothing at this time to confirm a connection,
     just pieces of circumstantial information. Included in this is the supposed Gaelic origin for our modern Curley spelling, the name Mac Thoirdealbhaigh,
     which roughly means "son of the one shaped like Thor or in the shape of Thor". We probably should not discount the fact the our Curley family has
     been connected to Athlone on the shore of Lough Ree, for a very long time and this is where they are predominantly found today. Conincidentally,
     there is where Turgesius had his viking encampment, and again, the common ancestor for our paternal lineage appears to have existed between 800
     and 1100 AD. Update: Ancient Viking remains found on the island of Oland, Sweden's 2nd largest island, tested positive for the L1066 SNP
     which is an SNP our Curley lineage shares. We must keep in mind however this L1066 SNP is a mutation that occurred over 3000+ years ago.

I am optimistic the question surrounding the origin for Clan Curley will be answered in the near future and this will come from additonal DNA
testing, possibly including more testing from ancient remains. I truly believe it's just a matter of time until we have the answer with a good degree of certainty.

Question: If the Gaelic name of Mac Thoirdealbhaigh is the origin for the modern Curley surname, how do you get Curley from Mac Thoirdealbhaigh?

Answer: Mac Thoirdealbhaigh to Curley is as follows: The first letter C in Curley is left from the original Mac, which leaves Thoirdealbhaigh. The first
"Th" in Thoirdealbhaigh are soft or silent, which leaves Oirdealbhaigh. This is actually pronounced something like ore-e-a-lay, ur-a-lay or errilly, just to
simplify it. So when you add the "C" left over from Mac to the root, you end up with something that sounds very close to Curley, which sounded close
to Mac Early or Mac Errily. The native Irish were forced to Anglicise their names so all the Gaelic names had to be tranlsated into an English version,
some of these forced Anglicized versions were quite a stretch from the original Gaelic name. With this said, there is no conclusive proof that the Curley
name used by our group comes from the Gaelic Mac Thoirdealbhaigh. Searching the various records or online yields no clues as to the origins for a
Mac Thoirdealbhaigh lineage, other than the name itself being a reference to the Scandinavian Thor. There is a somewhat recent proposal posted online which
I totally discount as highly improbable and will get no further mention.

Question: Do all the Curleys from Central Ireland, particularly Galway, Roscommon and Westmeath share a common male ancestor?

Answer: Through YDNA testing we have found that there are several unrelated Curley branches living within a very small geographic area. It is unknown at this time if these families share any connection to the Curley surname, such as might result from a distant adoption or some other type of non-paternity event or if their usage of the surname Curley came from a different source. The two main Curley groups identified thus far both appear to have been using the Curley surname for several hundred years and because the overall number of people that have tested YDNA is quite small, it's not possible at this time to determine whether or not one line is a senior lineage or they are simply two separate lineages who had a different name Anglicized to Curley. Any attempts to positively connect the origins for a specific group to the Curley surname with such limited DNA testing results would be unfounded. We are aware of alternate possibilities being proposed but this site founder does not agree with or support those findings however everything is subject to change as we learn more and more actual DNA results become available. The problem is we aren't there yet, there are just too few results to draw any conclusions particularly when we don't know the true history for each of the separate Curley lineages. We definitely need to stay away from a rush to judgment at this time and work with actual sound evidence.

Question: What is this YDNA testing and how does it work?

Answer: YDNA testing is able to trace back the male paternal lineage going back thousands of years, but measuring mutations or changes to the YDNA chromosome. Related families will only have slight changes to their YDNA, which can easily be identified through basic YDNA testing. Because the YDNA chromosome is only found in males, it is particularly useful in tracing back surnames which are passed down generation to generation from father to son. As you might imagine, non-paternity events such as adoptions, infidelity or any other events where a male might have a surname different than his actual birth father introduces challenges to genealogy research but the good news is that the YDNA doesn't really care about the surname, just about who matches the DNA so it's also possible to find connections having a different surname.

The DNA test itself is quite quick and completely painless, it involves taking a platic swab and rubbing it against the inside of your mouth on your cheek. You would do this on both sides of your mouth, using a different swab for each side. The ends of the swabs are then ejected into vials and mailed back to the testing company. There are some companies that also use a saliva sample in a tube however the main focus of this project is YDNA testing so it's important to understand what kind of test is being taken and what type of results to expect.

Question: Have the origins for the Curley surname as it relates to the Athlone Curley group been determined?

Answer: No, the origin for the Curley surname as it relates to the Athlone Curley group remains unknown. Far too little testing has been done to make any determination as to the origins and anything else is simply wild speculation at best. In other words, there is no solid evidence to demonstrate the Curley surname for the Athlone group was either acquired from a different genetic Curley group or even what the name was prior to being Anglicized to Curley. With only a handful of Curleys tested East of the river Shannon, there is absolutely no way to make any determination regarding this group's origin or how they acquired the Curley surname. Having pioneered Curley YDNA testing by fully testing the Y-Chromosome, we now have probably all of the mutations for this Curley family from present day going back to centuries BC. What will need to happen now is for more Curleys to test from the Athlone area, and surrounding areas East, so that we can formulate a better picture as to how far the surname usage goes back. Currently we are back to at least the 1600s but again, that is based upon a small number of Curley matches. The next closest genetic connection to a non-Curley surname goes back to at least 1100 AD, probably even further. The furthest non-Curley surname match that we have identified as being related and part of the Central Irish Cluster goes back to approximately 500 - 800 AD. That of course still leaves to door wide open for exactly when the Curley surname came into use, or perhaps better stated, whatever name was Anglicized to Curley. With the limited number of Athlone area Curley descendants in the United States that have tested to date and currently having an estimated shared ancestor to the early 1600s, possibly the late 1500s, I wouldn't be surprised to see this Curley group using the Curley much farther back.

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